[Note to listeners: Sorry for the not-so-great sound on this one. I had issues.] Erin Whalen has spent years as an actor and acting coach, and she’s now discovered her true calling: Compassionate Coaching. Through improvisational theater with groups of all sizes, she creates space for grief to flow and growth to flourish. But what does that really mean? How did Erin find her way into this unique work? And what is her personal story, including the life and loss of her sister? Erin’s energy and approach are hard to put into words — have a listen and experience her infectious style for yourself!

⁠https://www.compassionatecoaching.org/⁠

Transcript:

Diane Hullet: Hi, I’m Diane Hullet and you’re listening to the Best Life, Best Death podcast. I’m here today with Erin Whalen, the founder of Compassionate Coaching. And I’m really happy to have you here, Erin. This is a little bit out of the box and super interesting. Welcome. 

Erin Whalen: Thank you so much for having me, Diane. I am really happy to have this conversation with you.

Diane Hullet: Aaron’s name, you know, came to me the way these names come to me. Somebody says to me, Hey, you want to check out Aaron Whalen and the work she’s doing. So, you know, you’re based in the DC area. Tell us a little bit about Compassionate Coaching, what it is and how you got into it. 

Erin Whalen: So Compassionate Coaching is a company that I founded.

We do grief, improv, theater. And grief is universal, but. It’s hard to talk about, and so we have a process that we use to help people feel more comfortable diving into the potentially sticky, challenging topic of grief. And 

Diane Hullet: you do this with groups, like companies, all kinds of groups. All 

Erin Whalen: of the above, yes.

Everybody brings you in. Yes, yes, we can do this for organizations or companies, we do this for groups or communities that either have had a recent experience with grief that they need some support and processing or they’re just aware as the conversation is changing as you and I see the conversation changing about it.

Thank you. people being more open and more talkative about things like grief and death and dying. So maybe they’re just on that cutting edge and they’re just trying to, trying to bring something to their community that will serve them that they haven’t necessarily had an experience recently, but they, they know that it’s important that we all walk around.

with our grief. So it’s not as though we have to wait for anything to happen. It’s just always with us. 

Diane Hullet: Yeah. It’s always present. And then there can be these tragedies that really touch a community and need space. Say, tell us about, you know, for listeners who have no idea, they’re like, what the heck is playback theater?

Tell us about playback theater and how you came to playback theater. 

Erin Whalen: The Playback Theater is a beautiful art form. It’s a little bit of history about it. It started in 1975 and it was founded by a man named Jonathan Fox, who I think is a psycho drama person. And that his partner is Joe Salas and she is a musician.

And so the two of them created this art form that incorporates people’s stories. And the playback troupe comes and creates this safe space for people to share stories. And the troupe involves a conductor who facilitates the process, and then actors, and a musician or two. And so we hold this space. The conductor invites people to share stories based on a theme and their personal stories from their life.

They, you have to be in your own story. So it’s not like, you know, Oh, I remember this crazy thing happened to my uncle. It’s like, no, you have to be in your story. It has to be from your own lived experience. And you tell the story and the conductor guides you in the telling of the story. And then after the story has been told.

The musicians and the actors will immediately reflect the story back to you with music and movement and improvisational drama. 

Diane Hullet: So, I, you know, when, when you say it, I immediately, I hear a violin begin, you know, that’s always just. What I imagine when, when someone, if someone were to tell a personal story of grief, the sound I hear is a plaintive violin.

And so I can just imagine how that sort of brings a room together and brings the emotion to the forefront that maybe has been a little bit under the surface. 

Erin Whalen: Yeah. Music really is such an activation for us as humans. It really touches a deeper part of us. And sometimes, you know, when we’re asking people, Hey, let’s get together and share personal stories.

It can be a very intimidating process for a lot of people. So we have all sorts of ways of helping to create that psychological safety. people warm up to the process. And a lot of times what we do is start the process with music. So before anyone tells a story or is invited to share a story from their life, we just start the whole process with music because that, it just puts us in a different place.

Emotionally, it exposes us to Something bigger than ourselves, which is what’s necessary for this process. And it really evokes emotion. Music has this beautiful, as all art does, it has the ability to evoke emotion within us and kind of get, get things stirred up a little bit. So I, I just, I love that, that you, you, You pinpointed that, that the violin is, is just kind of the perfect instrument.

And I do work with a beautiful violinist and, and vocalist named Asali. And yeah, she is one of the musicians that I work with and it’s just a stunning, a stunning process that. She and all the musicians that I work with are able to reflect someone’s story back and with music is just otherworldly.

It’s, it’s such a powerful, powerful art form. 

Diane Hullet: Yeah, this, this is different, but I’m reminded when my mother in law was planning a ceremony, a service for my father in law. She, she said, you know, I don’t know, I sort of want to include classical because he loved that, but I also, he loved some country songs.

I’m like, gee, it just doesn’t feel like it all fits. And I remember my husband and I were, we said, no, it does all fit because it’s him. Like this was all him. So she ended up creating this incredible situation where. She had a pianist come into the church where the service was held and, and play music at the beginning, and that was partly from a chaplain who had helped us form kind of the arc of the ceremony, and what she said is, When you come into a ceremony, which on some level you’re talking about a ceremony, I mean I’m talking about a funeral ceremony, but you’re talking about a workshop ceremony.

But the chaplain said to us, when you come into a ceremony, you want a break with normal. And music helps people break from normal life and bookend it and say, this is different, I’m in a different space now. So the chaplain said. You know, I, to my mother in law, you know, I think if you open with this classical piano music playing as people come in, it says to them, we’re now entering an altered space, we’re now coming together as a community.

And so that piano music was playing before people got there, and then as people arrived, and then when everyone had arrived. It was still going and then it’s like it anchored the whole thing and then in the middle of it was country songs and so on and a bluegrass duet played come fly, come fly away. I believe that’s the song.

So special and then it ended again with piano music and so there was this whole arc and the way the music held it I really I Hear you that that sets a tone and sets a space and puts people in their kind of hearts and bodies in a different way So they probably kind of come in going. Oh, we got to do this professional development workshop And oh geez, we’re gonna tell personal stories.

This sounds kind of challenging or I don’t want to be here but if they walk into music and Something settles in the human psyche, right? With that. So, so this is theater and music and storytelling. And how in the world did you get to this place in your life? What things did you do before? 

Erin Whalen: So I’ve done a lot of things.

I’m one of those people who’s been spending most of her, well, I don’t know about most, but a lot of my professional life has been as a freelancer dabbling in different types of work. I’ve been doing professional acting of one kind or another, or actually many at the same time since 2006. And so it’s been many years of trying a lot of different things.

And the DC area, believe it or not, has a fair amount of work. I mean, it’s probably changed quite a bit since the pandemic. I’m not as. I’m not as dialed into that scene as much anymore, I’m focused more on my business and back in the day, there was actually enough work to, to sustain a living as a freelance actor.

So I did kind of all the quote unquote normal things where I did some theater, some, you what we consider normal theater, not playback theater. There’s a huge push in this area to do a lot of like industrial work. A lot of training videos are filmed in the DC area. A lot of big movies would come to town and they would hire extras.

So I did a lot of that thing, which is, it was great. It was a wonderful experience. And things that really drew my attention from an acting perspective were things that we don’t. I don’t really know actors normally do or sometimes do, and one of them is this concept of being there to support medical professionals with everything from teaching them how to, you know, listen to your heart and lungs.

to you know, I, you have to learn how to give a, a cancer diagnosis and you have to learn how to communicate with someone. So I worked with a couple of different medical schools in the area to help future physicians to learn how to have really challenging conversations. So that was one of the things that I did.

I eventually got to the place where I was training other. Standardized patients is the, the name of that position. I was training other standardized patients to do those more challenging conversation cases with really high stakes. Like you. Hospice patient someone who is a victim of domestic violence, intimate partner violence, and things, things of that nature where it’s like you’re gonna face it as a physician.

You’re gonna have these situations and you better know how to handle it and you better practice it. before you’re actually encountering a patient in this situation where you don’t want to be causing harm. You want to actually have practice so that you know what to do when the time comes. 

Diane Hullet: I think that’s what’s so cool.

I did not know, having not had doctors in the family or whatever, I did not know about this standardized therapy. Patient piece until just recently and I think it’s so interesting and it makes so much sense that Doctors who are in training need to practice this and that there are people who can go into that role And and I almost want to say give the doctors a hard time I mean not really intentionally but really to help them practice and I’m sure then they sort of pause midstream and go Okay, let’s talk about what?

So, and so just did, you know, and talk about that. Okay, back in. So how, how amazing. And so you were training these other folks on their roles that they were going to play for a hospital system. That’s wild. 

Erin Whalen: It’s so fun. It’s so fun. And I still, I still do that. Sam, now I’m more of a facilitator for physicians for a group of physicians where, where I live.

And that is wonderful too, because it’s, it’s great to say. to the medical profession in so many words, like we all still need to practice this. We all still need, you know, this goes beyond what you learned in medical school. Like we all get in our, our comfort zone. We all get in our habits and it’s good to go back and get some professional development, to get some refreshers, to get some practice in that safe, low stakes environment where you can practice those challenging conversations and get feedback from.

a fake patient, essentially, you know, I’m a fake patient, but I’m a real patient. So helping those physicians guide them, guiding their work with the actors, it’s just, it’s so rewarding and it’s just so beautiful to see them. I actually just came back from a four day. very intensive retreats where I was co facilitating a small group of physicians who were practicing these communication skills.

And it’s, it’s just so rewarding to see them put in the really hard work of, of being open to receiving feedback, being open to receiving you know, ideas of if you’ve been practicing for decades, it’s, it’s a little hard to swallow that ego and say like, yeah, I guess I want. I want to hear that feedback.

You know, how am I doing? And just see them try these, these really beautiful things. And it’s, it’s, it’s so fulfilling and so satisfying. And, and I’m really awestruck that I get to use my gifts in order to be of service to physicians who are going to go out and touch the lives of so many people. 

Diane Hullet: That’s so neat.

It’s really, it’s really special. I think that’s really special. Going back to the playback theater, you talked about how, like, you might come into an organization and are there typically, you know, 15 people in the room or 45 people in the room or 200 people? And you mentioned that there might be a theme.

What, what kind of theme comes up? 

Erin Whalen: Those are great questions. So let me talk about the theme first. It’s something that it’s not what we do is improv, right? Like we go in, we don’t know what stories people are going to tell. We’re just as present to the moment as everyone in the room. However, the prep work is very intentional ahead of time.

So I work with the organization, the company, the group ahead of time and say, you know, what, what’s going on in your group right now? what prompted you to make this call? And I really try and learn, like, what is happening? What are the needs? And how can my team serve? And so coming up with those prompts or themes is really a critical piece to what we do.

Just some examples of, of possible prompts or themes that I’ve been a part of, either in my own work for playback that I do at Compassionate Coaching, or I’ve been doing, I was doing playback for about 10 years before I actually founded my company. So I have a decade extra experience doing playback that has nothing to do with compassionate coaching that led me to that field.

But just some examples what, what have you overcome in your life? What is your fondest memory? Tell us about, you know, why you do what you do. Why, why you chose to work in this field or why you chose to do this, this work that you do. Did I say, what is your proudest moment? Did I say that one yet?

That’s another good one. What’s your proudest moment? What brings you joy? And those are, those are prompts that aren’t necessarily grief related, but we find ways to open it up to the grief, right? We find ways to talk about the hard stuff of, you know, the things you’ve overcome. And you know, what, what do you regret?

That’s another beautiful one. What’s a story you’ve never told? These are all options. I’ve probably been involved in probably around 200 different playback performances since 2010. And there have been probably close to 200 different themes. So it’s really. a cultivation of working with the group and finding out how we can best serve them and how we can, how we can open the door for people to share stories.

Diane Hullet: And imagine there’s huge transformation individually. Did, do the organizations also report kind of a cultural transformation within an organization? 

Erin Whalen: Yes, that’s very, very common. Interestingly enough, it’s, It’s a, it’s a both, like you said, it’s, you’re so intuitive by the way, Diane, like I’m able to say things that I don’t know if I’m making sense.

And then you just reflect back and I’m like, yes, that’s it. So thank you for being so intuitive and such a great listener. It is both that individual processing and this collective ability and the ability to see where do I fit in the hole, right? So if it is like a group a team, a workplace, Oftentimes it’s a matter of reflection and saying like, wow, is this, how has this changed?

What is my part in this? And the ability, you know, you, you really remember stories. We all remember stories. And when you have this powerful experience of hearing your colleague share a very personal story, that in and of itself is just so powerful. And then when you all get to witness. The music and the acting and you know, when we’re acting in these stories, it’s not just like a chronological once upon a time.

It is like, I mean, I have been, just yesterday I did a playback show. Let me think of some of the things I was. I portrayed art, like literally the concept of art. I portrayed a junior high student. I portrayed marriage. I portrayed a woman who was diagnosed with cancer. I portrayed, like, I can just tell you all the things I portrayed.

It’s a very creative process. So when you are sitting there with your colleague, and they just shared this story, and then you’re all watching it come to life in a very artistic way, you remember that. So that experience in and of itself is transformational and becomes a touchstone for the group to say, oh my gosh, now I know this about, you know, Susan and Susan’s grandma and what an impact Susan’s grandma had on her life.

Like you just, you don’t forget it because of the way it’s told by Susan and then the way it’s reflected back. And so it is this. individual experience and as you so aptly, intuit, intuited, intu That word. So aptly did. It is a collective experience as well and the transformation is real. 

Diane Hullet: I’m struck by the vulnerability that it takes and I’m also struck by the creativity that obviously you’re a part of.

actors have to step forward with. And then I’m struck also, I’ve been thinking lately about how we are beings who are meant to tell stories. We, we tell stories all the time. It’s basically what we do in our heads is a running narrative of the story of our lives. And I think we’ve gotten a way from some of the mythic stories and the important stories of being human.

And it’s part of the reason I think I’m drawn to this end of life work. It is, it is such an ancient human story. It’s, it’s almost like death is the story of our lives. It’s like our life is the story, but our death is the story, the fact of being mortal. And so this, this kind of idea that we can take narrative back is almost what I want to say that your your group brings story back to a group of people which is so basically human and it’s funny because we watch a lot of quote unquote stories on Instagram or tik tok or Facebook or all the social media stories but they lack the connection and the depth and the group contact and then we live our lives at work or in families or whatever we’re doing living story every day, but hardly ever naming it as such.

So I’m so struck by the beauty of what you’re doing and it’s, it’s almost like an ancient art form. 

Erin Whalen: Wow, 

Diane Hullet: that 

Erin Whalen: is, that’s so touching and so true. My colleague that does playback with me, he is usually the conductor who facilitates the process when I do work. And he, he often says that stories are our DNA.

And it’s true. I mean, that’s how ever since we’ve been on this planet, it’s been story and in all sorts of rituals and history and cultures and religions, it’s story, right? Every, every single one of those, big things, whether it’s a faith tradition or a culture, it’s all, they all have story in common. And that is because we are human beings who have lived experience and we are meaning making machines.

We’re trying to make sense of this life. We’re trying to make sense of our existence and our connection to each other. And we do that with story. We do that by piecing it all together in terms of once upon a time. 

Diane Hullet: Yeah. And you’re, we’ve talked before about your story of your family and your sister. I mean, we’re sort of coming to the end of our time, but I feel like I want to put that in here because it is an important thread of your story that’s been part of bringing the work you to people.

Tell us about Gina. 

Erin Whalen: Thank you. And thank you for saying her name. That’s so lovely to hear her name spoken. So, Gina is my older sister. I’m the youngest of four. Gina was the second in our family and she had really severe cerebral palsy. And so, it was never really addressed in this term, but I had anticipatory grief.

because it was clear that I was going to outlive my older sister and she died two weeks after I turned 40. So for 40 years, I was on this planet wondering when Gina would die, knowing it would be soon, whenever soon, whatever soon meant. And I actually, you know, I, once I started diving into kind of the mechanics of grief, I, I started hearing the term continuing bonds and it’s so true.

I, I talk to her all the time. She’s with me all the time. I feel so close to her and I’m now, I am. I’ve been past the age that she lived. So Gina died when she was 45. I’m almost 48. And so that is this whole other season that I’m in of, okay, 40 years of anticipatory grief, and then after Gina died, okay, we’ve been kind of waiting for this our whole life.

What does this mean? And then it’s okay. I kind of have a grasp on that. Now I’m older than she ever reached. Like, that feels a little funny. And, it’s, she’s, she’s my, I recently had the realization, I’m like, she’s kind of my North Star. Like, Gina’s kind of my North Star. And I feel very close to her and very honored to have her as my sister.

Diane Hullet: Yeah, she was like a central character in your story, right? A central piece and not only a character but also a central part of the plot and a central part of the experience. So, wow. Yeah, she’s 

Erin Whalen: kind of my Virgil too now that I’m thinking about it. She’s kind of my guide. She’s Yeah. 

Diane Hullet: Amazing. Well, I’m so grateful that you and your work came across my radar.

I, of course, keep thinking of organizations and people and places that need to have you come, but you are primarily DC based, so anybody in that area who’s listening, I mean, I think this playback work, this improv playback theater, wait, what is it? Playback improv theater. 

Erin Whalen: Grief, grief improv theater. 

Diane Hullet: Grief improv theater.

Could be so powerful for a corporation, for a school system, for a hospice journey, a hospice volunteers often have some kind of additional training to move their grief because hospice volunteers and hospice team members carry a lot. So there’s so much out there that’s possible. When there’s a willingness for vulnerability and a willingness to lean into this meaning maker that we all carry.

I love that phrase. I don’t think you’re the first to use it, but I love it. Yeah, i’m definitely not the first. Or somebody really really big or probably beyond joseph campbell, you know shamans the world over have probably used that term but I, I encourage listeners to think about that. How, how in this current time, in this current society, we, we struggle to be meaning makers in a way that is, is different than what our ancestors did.

They, they had their own way of making meaning and were challenged in this very Speedy culture and quote unquote productivity based culture to find meaning and to find the stories of our lives and our siblings and our ancestors and our coworkers. Beautiful. I love the work you do. You can find out more about Aaron’s work at compassionatecoaching.

org and you could even bring her entire team to your area. You just have to fly all these actors and, and musicians to wherever you are, but I think this is phenomenal work and I’m so grateful to have you as a guest today. 

Erin Whalen: Diane, thank you for having me. I’m so, I’m just, I love the work you do too. I think you’re fantastic.

Thank you for using your platform to allow me to be here today. Thank you so much. 

Diane Hullet: Absolutely. Well, as always, you can find out more about the work I do at bestlifebestdeath. com. Thanks so much for listening.