Terramation, Natural Organic Reduction, Human Composting –  whatever you call it, let’s get down in the dirt to discuss this body disposition option! In this earth-shattering episode, I talk with Mike Reagan about how a Colorado company is taking this innovation in body disposition in a different, yet down-to-earth direction. Mike says, “We want to enable existing funeral homes and crematory operators to open up their own termination facilities and serve their local communities. These folks are passionate about embracing this green option and serving their community, and we are here to help.” Innovation and expansion?! Let’s dig in! (All puns intended.)

Trancript:

Hi, I’m Diane Hullet and you’re listening to the best life, best death podcast. And I’m excited today to be having a second conversation with Mike Reagan of the natural funeral. The natural funeral is based in Colorado, but they’re moving and shaking and they have really interesting plans, which Mike is going to share with us.

So welcome Mike. Hey, Diane. Thank you. It’s great to be here. And you and I first met through, uh, the true hospice here in Boulder. And that was wonderful. We had a great coffee and discovered that both our kids were at the university of Michigan go blue. That’s right. There’s just a lot of commonalities here.

Tell us, you know, I remember at that first coffee we had, you talked about really moving from kind of a corporate it life into the end of life world and doula work. Tell us about just the path that got you to where you are today. Well, it’s an interesting path. In fact, um, as I look back on it, uh, many things didn’t make sense at the time, but looking back, I can now see kind of the tapestry that, you know, was being woven that, that led to all this.

And in fact, It’s kind of a full circle. If I think back to my, uh, early days of high school, when I was 15, I started as a laborer at my local cemetery. And the local funeral director was the, um, cemetery superintendent. And he liked my work ethic. So he asked if I wanted to make some extra money and work around the funeral home.

And that evolved into, uh, being a licensed apprenticed embalmer, um, at a very early age and, and doing transports with, with, uh, the funeral home. And, um, uh, and, and so I had a taste of that work for seven years. And I really enjoyed it. I, the thing I enjoyed most was supporting the families when they would come into the funeral home and, and, uh, you know, have us care for their loved ones.

Um, but I realized I wanted something, uh, larger and something that would enable me to, to spread my wings and, and try new things. So I chose not to stay in that industry. And I spent 30, over 30 years and. And the IT world, um, and, uh, and helping IT companies grow. Um, and about coming up on eight years ago now, I, uh, I kind of finally hit the wall.

Um, I, well, I enjoyed that work. It was a lot of fun and we grew a lot of companies. Um, it didn’t really. Touch my heart the way I felt that I was always drawn to in fact, the last 10 years in, in my corporate job, every Friday I did meals on wheels and, and everyone knew you don’t book a meeting with Mike between 11 and one 30 on a Friday.

Cause he’s doing this on wheels and I loved it. And then I connected with, with so many wonderful people and made beautiful friendships out of it. And, uh, it, it taught me that, um, That was a very comfortable space for me, engaging with folks, most of whom are, uh, in approaching the final chapters of their lives.

Um, and then my father passed in 2013, uh, and, uh, during his decline of dementia, A dear friend gave me the book, uh, Final Gifts. Um, and it was beautiful and so aligned with the experience I was having with my dad. Uh, and it, I felt such resonance with the messages in there. Uh, and, and so I kind of, um, thought to myself, when you feel ready to move beyond this corporate world, hospice might be the place for you.

And so in, uh, 2017, I decided. I’m going to pull the cord and I left the corporate world and I became a hospice volunteer, uh, with True, as you know. Um, and it, it was really the most meaningful work I’ve ever done. And, and that evolved into becoming an end of life doula. Uh, and, um, uh, and I’ve, I’ve done a variety of things in that capacity from a sitting 11th hour with patients, um, to, uh, serving families through, uh, offering respite care to allow the primary caregiver to leave and and get a break.

Um, uh, being trained in comfort touch and then working at the hospice care center. Um, and meeting with patients at the very end and serving them in whatever Way that they, that they need at that time and it’s been beautiful. So that’s how I get into hospice work. Yeah. Amazing. As you said, very full circle and you’ve got this like circle within a circle, right?

Or something, some of the have collided because I think your corporate expertise is now coming to bear fruit with the natural funeral. So talk about this new. Position of ceo of the natural funeral and yeah, kind of what what’s going on there? And what are you planning on doing? Yeah, well, there’s a lot going on here.

It’s really busy. It’s it’s been interesting to jump back into uh, Uh, you know out of retirement into a another corporate job, but this isn’t really doesn’t feel like a corporate job It feels very well aligned with my passions. So, um, I met one of the the co founders of the natural funeral seth vedal Uh, back in 2017, when I was just starting out as a hospice volunteer, he and I, um, met at a mindfulness training course at a place called Willow Farm with Susan Nemchik, uh, and I immediately felt aligned with Seth.

Um, and he’s, he’s an incredibly beautiful soul and, uh, really passionate about serving. And, um, uh, he and I stayed in touch. I went off and did my hospice volunteer work and pursued a death doula path. And Seth was doing hospice volunteer work as well, but, um, ended up joining the natural funeral in 2019 and helped them open their doors.

And a little over A year ago, he reached out to me and said, Mike, I got to tell you what’s going on. We’ve got so much happening and the market, uh, for our services is about to explode and I’d love to get your take on it. So I, I visited with him and he shared with me what was happening and, uh, the natural funeral among.

A number of other things had brought to market to be the first in colorado a natural organic reduction offering which we now call terramation and it’s a process by which A human body can be transformed into regenerative living soil in 60 days around 60 days and they uh, they Not only introduce this in the state of Colorado, they’re now one of only four organizations in the country that that do this.

The other three are up in the northwest outside of Seattle. And Seth said, Mike, we’ve taken a different approach to this than the other vendors and the other companies. And, uh, we have the ability to take this across the country to other states. And when he and I first spoke, I think there were seven states in which terramation was legal or natural organic reduction.

And now 12 states, uh, uh, have made it legal. And there are another dozen or so that have it under consideration in legislation. So, um, It’s really exciting and it’s, it’s indicative of a green wave. There’s, there’s kind of an awakening happening in our country and frankly around the globe, uh, where people are realizing the way we’ve done funerals for so long, it’s not really the best way to do it, particularly as it relates to the climate challenges that we have.

And. It’s really just not kind to mother earth. And there are many there there’s, there’s a much better way to do it. And natural organic reduction is, is the one way that provides the greatest return, uh, to the earth. In fact, a single termination process, um, sequesters over a half a ton of carbon. Uh, and if, if you think about that versus a flame cremation that takes, uh, as much fuel as, uh, 500 mile drive across country.

Uh, and it also emits Uh toxic fumes out into the air termation is just a beautiful option And and people are coming to embrace it In fact in lafayette colorado and loveland where our two funeral homes are it’s the fastest growing option That people are choosing and so The company’s now poised to bring that to other markets as well by enabling existing funeral homes and crematory operators to You open up their own tarimation facilities and serve their local communities.

And many of these folks are really passionate about embracing this green option and serving their community as their community starts to make that change. So it’s, it’s really exciting. Yeah. It’s so interesting. It’s such a growing field. I first heard of this, oh gosh, I don’t know, many years ago when Katrina Spade first opened there up in Seattle.

And then I was part of the inaugural, oh gosh, what was the conference called? It was the Body Composting Conference. It was the first one in Denver and it was about a year and a half ago now. And it was so beautifully held. The natural funeral was one of the primary organizers. It’s not the only one.

Everybody who was involved in this in the nation came. Yeah. And, but Seth did such a particularly beautiful job. Seth and his team. At the beginning, they did kind of a, a mock placement of a person into one of their vessels. At the end of the conference, there was a taking out of a person and a family had very beautifully donated some soil from a family member who had gone through this process so that when they took the vessel and poured it out onto a tarp in this hotel ballroom, We all kind of, you know, very reverently and beautifully walked past it and, and had a moment with it, I want to say.

And again, this is where Seth and his team held it so beautifully. It really was revered. It wasn’t crass. It was, it was very well done, but they invited us to come and really experience the material that came. And, and literally we all just, You know, looked at each other like, well, this is just dirt, right?

I mean, this is fake dirt. No, no. They would say this really, this was a person who was in this vessel. And now through a composting process, a termination process, natural organic reduction has been into this incredible soil. So I had such an experience with that. And I think it’s so interesting. Tell us a little, if it’s easy about, Like how the natural funeral has gone through a few different, uh, vessel creations, if you will, or the creations of what is put in with the body.

Sure. It’s, um, we’ve, we’ve invested millions of dollars in the development of the technology. And, uh, we’ve really honed the process as well. So there are a few different components. Yeah. The vessel in which the process occurs, you have the natural organics that complement the body inside the vessel, and it’s a combination of alfalfa straw, uh, and other natural ingredients.

And there’s a very specific. ratio of those ingredients. And then there’s also a tea that we have crafted that comprises 25 different strains of bacteria and 15 different fungal spores that have been honed and selected because of the complementary nature of that, uh, of, of those elements and what the body naturally does.

Um, as, as it transforms and you put all that together and you seal the vessel with the body having been laid inside there and we monitor for temperature and moisture in the vessel during the process and It’s really, it’s really pretty cool, um, to see that the natural process raises the temperature inside the vessel to between 130 to 165 degrees Fahrenheit.

And when it’s in that range, the natural transformation process is happening. And then, If the temperature starts to drop, that’s indicative of the process slowing down. And at that point, our vessels now are fourth gen vessels. It they’ll rotate. And after the first week we’ll rotate them daily. And, um, that rotation restarts that program or kind of kicks it back into, into gear and then.

When the temperature no longer shifts back up after the rotation, we realize it’s pretty much done and that process takes about 30 days between 28 and 33 days on average, and after that process is complete, then we remove the soil from the vessel and we sift out the bones and any medical Components that are in there, like a pacemaker or a titanium knee.

And then the soil goes into what’s called a curing bin. And it sits for 30 days in that curing bin. And then we, we take the bones and we reduce them to a powder. And then we will lay the bones back into the curing bin, into the regenerative living soil. And because the enamel has been broken down, the calcium in that, in the bones are readily available and they’re.

Okay. immediately absorbed into the soil. Within two days, there’s no sign of the, of the bones anymore. And then after that 30 day cure period, we return the soil to the family. Um, and most families choose to receive it back and they’ll plant a tree. They may place a portion of it. On top of a grave that a loved one was buried in, they may put it in the flower garden, you know, for their loved one who nurtured those roses for so many years.

And, uh, it’s a way to return this beautiful vessel that we occupied for our lives. back to the cycle of life, as opposed to attempting to preserve it and poison it and reduce its ability to contribute back to the cycle of life, which a lot of traditional approaches to, um, burial, uh, have done. Yeah. Wow. So what a poetic way to phrase all of that really in so many ways.

And I couldn’t help thinking, you know, uh, my family, a series of people in my family are all gardeners. And when you said he, my grandfather used to make what he called fish tea. And basically he was a fisherman and all the bones and the skin and anything he didn’t eat from the fish would go in this, you And then basically just rot in there with, and, you know, he would then add water and pour that tea into a watering can and put it on his pumpkin patch.

And that is how he grew enormous pumpkins. Right. So the power of that, I mean, sounds kind of gross, but the power of those bacteria and the power of what that, uh, natural material can do for the soil. And in this case, for the breakdown of a body is just incredible. So I love that you’re adding. This T that’s even kind of beyond.

Yeah. So, so last couple weeks ago, I think you took one of these pods on the road. Tell us about that. Yeah. So I’d say for the last year or so, we’ve been envisioning taking the natural funeral model and replicating it across the country and states where, uh, terramation or natural organic reduction has become legal.

And, um, earlier this summer. We released our fourth generation version of our vessel. Um, and the vessel, uh, in this design has features in it that are making it a lot easier for an existing funeral home or crematory operator or cemetery operator. To do it themselves with our vessel. And so in our newsletter, we made it, uh, known that our fourth gen vessel was now available and it had these features to enable folks to do it themselves.

And we didn’t think there’d be that substantial an interest in it. Um, but we got inundated. We’ve got, we we’ve had calls from all over the globe, actually, of people saying, how can we get your vessels? We want to do it. And it was really beautiful to see that response because it was indicative of a matching, uh, desire and passion by funeral homes that have been serving communities for years.

They’re now matching the desire to, to shift the industry to a more eco friendly, uh, set of options. And it’s not just the, the consumers that are making that change, There are passionate funeral directors and funeral home operators and crematory operators that are seeing it and feel the same way. And so we’ve had a number of conversations with, uh, with a bunch of funeral homes in states where it’s legal today.

And it states where it’s just being considered in legislation. And these folks will be pioneers in those markets and, and bring our terramation vessels and an entire network with all of the equipment required to complement the vessel. So we’ve got an air filtration system and our T system and our sifter and our All of those components we call our termination vessel network and we we come in and it’s a turnkey solution for any funeral home or crematory operator or cemetery that wants to do it.

We come in. We do a design. We look at their facility. We figure out how we’ll lay it out. We put all the equipment in, we install it, we test it, make sure everything’s ready. And then we train their team in our best practices and how to follow our specific recipe and to use our tea so they can serve the families of their community.

And frankly, We would much rather tap that those passionate folks that are already in place that have been working with families and their community for generations, many of them, um, to help them catch the wave and to be able to offer this themselves. So it’s really exciting. And, uh, I, I couldn’t be happier with the, with the response we’ve been getting.

So exciting. So you and Seth packed up one, put it on the trailer. Yeah. So Seth, it was, uh, the National Funeral Directors Association has an annual conference and there were, I want to say probably 5, 000 people there. Um, they come in from all over the country and actually from around the globe for this conference.

And Seth came into the funeral home last, uh, the Thursday before the conference. And he said, what would you think of going to NFDA and bring in a vessel? And I said, I thought about it for a second. I’m like, tell me why we shouldn’t. And he’s like, I can’t. So we are, uh, Billy, our, our director of care center operations got a call from us saying, Hey, Billy, can you get one of our fourth gen vessels packed up and on a trailer, because we’re going to take it down to NFDA and we got ourselves a booth there.

And so the next day, Seth and I, it was 5. PM we’re leaving our Vata care center. With a trailer behind us and we drove to New Orleans bringing our fourth gen vessel and we were kind of the bell of the ball there. You know, folks were coming by and we had a full vessel. We showed what a laying in really looks like and we had a curing bin of, uh, full of regenerative living soil that had been donated by a family for us to show folks.

And there’s, uh, the result of our process. is unique. It’s, um, the quality of the regenerative living soil is something like you’ve never seen before. And it’s, it’s the product of the process that we’ve honed and the ingredients we use and the recipe we use, you know, mother nature baked this process years ago.

And what we’ve simply done is taken it from, you know, if you were to bury a loved one in the ground without a, uh, a casket without. It take about 20 years on average for that person’s vessel, their body to, to integrate with the soil completely save that of the bones. And, and that’s a mother nature process.

That’s what she perfected. Right. And what we’ve done is we’ve taken that process, but we’ve found a way to accelerate it. To 30 days with another 30 day curing period and the, the, the soil that’s produced is absolutely beautiful. And so we had that there at the trade show and people were coming up saying, wait a minute, you can go from this to that in 30 days and I can get it back in 60 days.

The answer is yeah, it really, that’s how it works. And so a lot of folks were excited and we’ve had many, many conversations with other funeral homes and, and, um, you’ll see our vessels in other states, uh, um, in many different places in the first half of next year. Amazing. I love, really love this partnership with people who are already in the community, serving families, doing what they, when you’re making this possible.

And I think, you know, I think the whole funeral industry got really put on, what’s the word, put on notice for, you know, another time with this horrible thing that happened down by Colorado Springs. Yeah. A building found with bodies in it and very, very, very disrespectful and horrifying. I think to everyone who heard about it.

So, you know, this isn’t like throw up a pole barn and put a few boxes in it and throw in a bale of hay. This is like a really thoughtful process and I love that you go and help them design their building and really design the facility that they’re going to need to make this happen. But almost like you’ve created a DIY kit for these funeral homes.

So, and here, here, make this yours, make this happen. And I think the training around the laying in and the, the value of that process for families is so, so beautiful too. It’s almost like an old, like a more old fashioned, uh, you know, casket funeral, but the casket is this different kind of vessel. It’s interesting you say that, Diane, because, um, I’ve often heard Seth talk about the laying in ceremony is, is very similar to a graveside ceremony, right?

It’s, it’s the beginning of that process of, you know, of what happens next. And, uh, and the laying in, it’s a, it’s a beautiful. It’s a beautiful experience for families. We have, uh, we’ll do laying in ceremonies at our care center. Uh, we’ll, because the, the vessels are, are mobile, we could, we’ve done laying in ceremonies under a willow tree at Willow Farm up, you know, up in Hygiene.

Um, we can do it pretty much anywhere. Bring the, the, um, the vessel back to the facility, uh, where the process will, will take place. Uh, and it’s, it’s really meaningful to families to, that have made the choice, uh, For tarimation as the disposition to participate in the commencement of that process. We’ve had families come in and we allow them to add about a shoebox full of organic materials that may have been meaningful to the loved one or loved one’s family.

Or maybe meaningful to the family. You know, little kids will write love notes. They’ll put some roses from the garden in there. They’ll, um, we, we had a Native American, uh, man who we, uh, interated and the family on one side laid a salmon. Uh, on the other side, laid berries and nuts, and it was really aligned with his faith and his values.

And so there are so many beautiful things that can be done to complement this beautiful, eco friendly disposition option, and we’re happy to empower funeral homes to take that into their own communities. Well, I think anybody who’s listening should think to themselves, Hmm, might I tell my local funeral director about this podcast?

And they can listen and learn because as you said, a number of states are moving in the direction of legalizing this. And I think part of what the natural funeral has done is laid down a path. It’s understood so that everybody’s not having to reinvent the wheel. There is a, there is a known recipe. There are known vessels, fourth generation vessel.

What is it made of? Well, we have, um, I wish I had a picture I could show you, but it’s, uh, if you go to our website, go to the Terramation page, you’ll see it. Uh, it is, it’s a combination of, of steel and, uh, and wood. Um, we’ve, we use pine beetle kill on the outside, uh, which is beautiful and it comes from our local communities here, right?

Uh, the, um, we have, uh, It’s a, it’s a steel vessel, so it’s very strong. It’s on a, uh, it’s on a frame that allows it to rotate. So there’s a little motor on the end that controls the rotation. Uh, on one side, we have air flow and, and, and T flow in. Um, and then on the other side, we have air flow out. Uh, behind that, we have an infrastructure of, uh, Uh, of water and, um, and air pipes that allow for the distribution of all those elements through all the vessels in a termination vessel network.

We have an exhaust system. So there’s a multi layer filtration system so that we can let me back up for a second when. A vessel is undergoing the process of termination. What’s happening inside, as I described before, is that temperature’s growing, right? And we can control that temperature because we want to keep it within that ideal range for that process to occur.

And releasing of air from the vessel allows. A cooling down to keep it within that range. So, um, so we’ve got this whole infrastructure behind each vessel. Um, that, that, uh, is deployed within the infrastructure and, uh, and within, within the facility. Um, so the vessels are pretty cool. We have the ability to put our partner’s logo on the front of each vessel.

Um, and it’s, it’s, uh, it’s not uncommon for family members to actually come in to a facility. and sit with the vessel during that 30 day process. And, and so if, if there’s a funeral home or crematory operator out there that’s, that’s finding this interesting and compelling, there are a lot of ways to wrap beautiful services around the termination process that reflects the funeral home’s desire to serve families in unique and, and, In powerful ways, so I’m stressed out about the gardening metaphor, right?

Anybody who’s composted knows how hot your compost pile gets. That’s right. That breaks everything down and how you have to turn it and so on. Yeah, it’s so interesting. It is different than a green burial, which is another body disposition. That is, of course, how humans buried each other for millennia was quoted in burial, right?

Yeah. Right. Place the body in a shroud or a basket in the ground in something that decompose. But this is an acceleration of that. Like you said, in that process, the bones really remain bones and in this process, everything is reabsorbed in a way I have to tell you, Mike, I have been a little, um, what’s the word?

Like I went to the termination conference and I loved it and I think it’s fascinating. Yeah. In my heart, I haven’t been that interested in it personally until this conversation. And I really, I could say the way that you talk about it really does make it sound quite appealing and kind of sounding and, um, I don’t know.

I don’t know why I hadn’t really glommed onto it before, but I just sort of, I just sort of like, well, I don’t know if I want to turn into dirt, but I don’t know, this conversation, I think I might take a crack at this. I’m going to have to revise my plan with my husband. Oh, thanks, Diane. You know, I have to tell you, I, um, It was only after I became more deeply Understanding of what’s really happening That I kind of flipped as well to say this just makes sense.

You know, um The way I view it we we occupy these these beautiful vessels during our our life lifespan and regardless of what, you know, your spiritual perspective is. Some people think, okay, well, when you die, your soul leaves the body. Right. Um, What happens to the vessel? And and to think that it holds the potential to foster new life If we treat it properly Um, it’s amazing and why wouldn’t we?

um, and and so it finally struck me that yeah, I You know, I I don’t want to Damage the vessel through a traditional process Um that doesn’t make it life giving back to the earth. Um, I didn’t want to be embalmed in a, in a lead lined casket, put in a cement vault, put in the ground. No, why, why not allow the vessel that served me so well for my life to serve more life and other life after I’m gone?

And, and tarimation serves that and I’m like, and, and the more, the more I talk to folks about it, the more people say it just makes sense. So yeah, I’m glad you feel that way. Thank you. Very interesting. We’ll see what happens. Hopefully I don’t have to decide for a long time and you’ll be on like 35th generation vessels before I have to choose.

It’s, it’s funny you say that because we, we had, um, uh, we’ve seen this rapid uptick in folks putting plans in place because when they, when they hear about it and they understand it. They’re like, that’s what I want. So they’re coming to us to do an advanced plan so they can ensure that their wishers are met and they’re able to lock in on, on the price of termination today.

So if it is many decades down the road for you, um, which I hope it will be, uh, you know, you, your family knows that this is, this is your wish. And Oh, by the way, it’s already taken care of. Yeah. 2024 prices. I love it. Exactly. Yeah. Well, you can find out more about all of this at the naturalfuneral. com, right?

And, um, gosh, you know, ask chat GPT to tell you all about taramation and see what it has to say. I mean, this is the new way to search things, right? So I appreciate so much the conversation, Mike. I just think it’s an exciting direction that this local business is taking off and hopefully benefiting folks everywhere.

Yeah. Great. Thank you, Diane. It’s been a pleasure. You can find out more about Mike’s work as a do***@pe**************.org, and as I said, you can find out more about interation and the Natural fu*****@th***************.com. And as always, you can find out more about the work I do at Best Life. Best death.com.

Thanks for listening.